On Wednesday January 26th, 2022, SOLO was invited to make a presentation to the Standing Committee on Financial and Economic Affairs in line with the 2022 Ontario Budget preconsultation. SOLO presented the issue facing small landlords in Ontario and they can be part of the solution to resolve the current housing crisis. The committee listened with attention and asked several pointed questions.
Here is the selected official transcripts of the SOLO presentation. The full version is in Hansard, the Ontario Official Report of the parliamentary debates
The Chair (Mr. Ernie Hardeman): Thank you for the presentation.
Our next one is Small Ownership Landlords of Ontario, SOLO. The rules are the same as the other presenters: seven minutes, and we’ll let you know when you’ve used up six. Before you speak, make sure you introduce yourself.
Mr. Boubacar Bah: Good afternoon. My name is Boubacar Bah. I represent Small Ownership Landlords of Ontario. We are a small, incorporated, non-profit association which consists mostly of mom-and-pop landlords—people who are your working-class neighbour, your friend, your cousin, your parents. We help the housing crisis by providing affordable housing to people, and that’s the reason we are here, because we are hurting like everybody else during COVID.
Since COVID started, most of the tenants were unable to pay their rent. The reason is because they lost their income. So the government, in its wisdom, came out and helped these tenants, and allowed them to get some financial help to go forward. Small landlords never got anything in order to be helped, in order to face the crisis. The small businesses got some help, the medium businesses got some help, the students got some help, even the unemployed got some help. So what we are asking here is to help the government tackle the housing crisis, which is getting worse and worse.
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Many small landlords are leaving the rental business because it’s getting too expensive to collect the rent, it’s getting too expensive for them to operate. All the costs have increased, and they just can’t keep it up. To add to that, we have difficulty getting access to LTB processing, which is nobody’s fault, because what is happening here is that, because of the pandemic, everything has changed. So we want to be a partner with the government to tackle the housing issues. That’s why we are addressing this committee, to see what they can do in the budget to encourage small landlords to stay in the rental business, before we find a permanent solution to the shortage of affordable housing here in Ontario.
What we are asking for is financial assistance for all the thousands of small landlords who have unpaid rent owing, and who have even been granted an eviction, but are unable to collect it. It’s not the tenant’s fault; it’s not the landlord’s fault. It’s just that the pandemic has made life difficult for everybody.
We would like to be considered as some other organizations. The Canada Emergency Business Account was given to small businesses, which meant residential property did not qualify. If you take the Canada Emergency Commercial Rent Assistance, that does not qualify for us as small landlords, only for the commercial landlords. If you look at the Canada Emergency Rent Subsidy, it was given to big buildings, big corporate landlords. If you look at the Canada Emergency Wage Subsidy, it was given to companies that have a payroll, which the small landlords did not qualify for. If you look at the Tourism and Hospitality Recovery Program, you look at the Hardest-Hit Business Recovery Program, the COVID assistance to individuals like the Canada Worker Lockdown Benefit and the Canada Emergency Response Benefit—all these were given to help these people, these organizations, these groups, for the economy to go through the pandemic. Nothing—I repeat, nothing—was given to small landlords.
So what’s happening now is that those small landlords are basically exiting the rental market, which makes everything worse. Here we’re not talking about the corporate landlords that have thousands of doors. If you have one or two tenants who cannot pay for whatever reason, then you’re going to be losing only 1% or 2% of your income, while if you’re talking about the small landlord who is renting his basement or a duplex, if he loses the income from the rent, basically he’s losing 30%, 80% or even 100% of his income. So that’s the reason we are in this committee. We are forgotten, because we are invisible. We don’t have a big corporation to lobby on our behalf. But according to Statistics Canada, small landlords represent close to 55% of all the rental stock here in Ontario. We are part of the economy and we want to be part of the solution.
We are coming to this committee to ask for a dialogue. We have a solution. We have the data to provide. We have members who are hurting; not only financially but they are hurting mentally, and we’re talking today with the mental health day. So, again, one more time, the Small Ownership Landlords of Ontario are small and medium landlords who are looking for this committee for help. Thank you.
The Chair (Mr. Ernie Hardeman): Thank you very much for your presentation. That concludes the three presentations.
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The Chair (Mr. Ernie Hardeman): Thank you very much. That concludes the time.
The next one is from the government. MPP Smith.
Mr. Dave Smith: I’m going to start with Boubacar Bah.
I’m a little bit confused. What we have consistently heard from the NDP in the House is that all landlords are greedy and that they’re trying to screw tenants over. What you’ve come out with—Chair, I’m going to have to turn my video off. I’ve just got a notice that my Internet connection is too slow. So I haven’t left; I’ve just turned my video off.
What I heard from you is that 55% of landlords in Ontario are small mom-and-pop shops. It sounds to me like you’re talking about somebody who has a duplex or a triplex, and possibly, they could be living on one side of it and they’re renting out the other side.
Mr. Boubacar Bah: Correct.
Mr. Dave Smith: What kind of hardships have you guys experienced, where tenants haven’t been able to pay or tenants have refused to pay when—it’s not your principal income, but it is part of your income.
Mr. Boubacar Bah: Well, it’s a very touchy subject, because it’s about human nature. When you are a big corporation, you have a property manager who is dealing with hundreds of apartments, and it’s very faceless. When you’re a small landlord, due to the personal connection between you and your tenant—he’s somebody you trust, because you give your property. Unfortunately, the way the system is right now, because there’s not enough funding for the LTB, it’s an adversarial system.
I can give you a very quick, specific example. For instance, a tenant has stopped paying rent as soon as he moved, and I asked $5,000 for what is known as a “cash for keys” deal. So the landlord went to the LTB. It took close to 10 months and $50,000 in arrears in order to get it. So those are the things that happen.
Another one: We have an Ottawa landlord who lost her husband and father, so she wanted to go back to her house. She rented her home to a tenant, and she went through all the screening measures. When she wanted to go back to her house, she had to go through the LTB system, which was shut down, so she had to wait another 12 months with unpaid rent before getting her house.
So no, the small landlords are not greedy. We have no interest. We are not in an adversarial relationship with our tenants. We want our tenant to be helped. We negotiate with them. We don’t go to the LTB all the time to evict. We are not here to gouge anybody. What we are trying to do is to work with them so it’s going to be win-win. They’re going to have a roof. We’re going to have an income so we can pay the mortgage, we can pay yearly maintenance, we can pay the repairs.
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Mr. Dave Smith: It sounds like it’s more of a personal relationship than it is a business relationship, and that you’re trying to forge kind of a friendship with your tenants because it’s personal. You’re only talking about a couple of units, not hundreds or thousands of units with tenants in them.
If you don’t mind, could you give me a little bit better of an understanding of some of the challenges you have with the Landlord and Tenant Board. Is it just the length of time it takes to go through it? Is it difficult to navigate the system as a small landlord? Is it a combination of things?
Mr. Boubacar Bah: Yes, it’s a combination of things. The biggest issue is the length of delay to get a resolution. Again, we are transitioning from in-person to virtual and this is affecting both landlords and tenants. What it’s creating is it’s creating anxiety, both for the landlord and for the tenants, because while you’re waiting for a resolution—the law is very clear. It’s there for a reason. They don’t want the landlord to abuse the tenants, and vice versa, the tenant shouldn’t abuse the landlord. It’s unacceptable to have 10 months, 18 months—we even have 26 months—waiting for a resolution to get access to justice.
Meanwhile, the landlord has to pay for basically everything. He has to pay the mortgage, he has to pay the maintenance, he has to pay for snow removal, and he has to pay for everything that needs to be done. Because it’s his property, he has an interest to keep it. The tenant, too, is frustrated because the landlord is not getting his income so he can’t fix things.
So our biggest issue is the delay, and the delay can be fixed. We made some proposals. We already contacted the LTB. We have been meeting with them, and there are practical ways of solving it while still respecting the tenants’ rights.
As a small landlord, I have a few properties. I have no interest in getting rid of my tenant. I want a good tenant who can look after the house, and I will look after the house from the landlord’s point of view.
The second most important thing for a small landlord is financial help. As I said in my introduction, everybody and his brother got some type of financial help. It would be the unemployed, the farmer, the NGOs, the long-term care. The small landlord did not qualify for any of these programs. If this budget can look into it, then that would be great, and it will help alleviate the housing crisis, because what’s happening right now is, when somebody goes through the LTB process—I’m telling you, some of our members say, “No way, I’m not ever going to rent.” They either take the house out of the market, increasing the housing shortage, or what’s happening right now is some of them just leave it empty. They would rather pay the tax than have somebody there that they cannot evict if they don’t pay.
Mr. Dave Smith: Thank you. I really appreciate that.
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The Chair (Mr. Ernie Hardeman): Thank you very much. That concludes the time for that questioner.
We’ll now go to round two and official opposition. MPP Arthur.
Mr. Ian Arthur: I’m going to start with Mr. Bah and the Small Ownership Landlords of Ontario. You raised a really important part, particularly around the tribunal and how long it actually takes. The honest conversation is that there are great tenants and terrible tenants, and there are great landlords and there are terrible landlords. The tribunal, frankly, helps none of them, because for the good tenants with the terrible landlord, it takes them just as long to have an issue resolved. And the landlords themselves who have bad tenants, yes, they can’t exit out of those bad tenants easily and they are faced with increased costs.
I hear your call for some supports for small landlords. It’s reasonable while there are eviction bans in place. It’s an issue of funding. We need the government to take this seriously, that the landlord and tenant tribunal needs a massive increase in funding, not incremental increases. They need a massive increase in resources to be able to catch up with this backlog. It’s not just putting it up a bit at a time.
And I think you’re right: I think people are being deterred from being landlords and helping solve the housing crisis on a small scale because of all the complications. If they could eliminate the backlog and people were confident, both renters and owners, that they could have issues resolved quickly, what would you expect the increase to be? How many more people do you think would get into being small landlords in Ontario?
Mr. Boubacar Bah: Within our group, we have an informal survey, which we can give to the committee later, on how many people are exiting the rental market. Within our members, we have close to 5% that said right away they’re not going to do it. My estimate—it’s not scientific. If the process is very straightforward, if you can get a resolution within a maximum three to four months—one way or another, whether the landlord is right or is wrong, but if at least within that three to four months you get a resolution, I can tell you the increase is going to be minimum 15% to 25%. This is based off an informal survey that we have among ourselves.
Even myself, I had an apartment. I have to wait. I’ve left it empty for a while until I basically find the right tenant.
Mr. Ian Arthur: Thank you.
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The Chair (Mr. Ernie Hardeman): Thank you very much. We now will go to the independent member. MPP Hunter.
Ms. Mitzie Hunter: I wanted to ask Boubacar Bah from the Small Ownership Landlords of Ontario group: You mentioned tenants were unable to pay, in some instances, during the pandemic and the disruption. You recognized that there were some supports for individuals in terms of covering them, which helps, and I would say that it’s the federal government that provided those direct supports, at least the majority of them. But one of the areas that was missing was support for tenants, in fact. We saw in BC, tenants were given $500, and that would help them to not fall into arrears and to keep up with their payments. I’m wondering what your thoughts are on that, if that would have assisted Ontario’s tenants, which in turn, perhaps, would assist the small landlords.
Mr. Boubacar Bah: Yes, this is how the system was supposed to work. There was individual help, financial help to tenants, because tenants—either they are workers or they are self-employed or they are on social assistance or the Ontario disability benefit.
Every single municipality in Ontario has what they call a rent bank. Basically, if you have some financial issue to pay your rent, they will lend you—sometimes they will forgive the money for it. The issue is, how can that money go to the landlord? Some of the landlords, when their tenant has an issue, they are aware there is a rent bank. They just let them know, “Hey, you can go to this organization to get some help.” Unfortunately, what happened because of the delay at the LTB is there is a new phenomenon that has been popping up which most people are not aware of. Some people, very, very few people—knowing the system takes too long to get a resolution, what they do is they basically refuse to pay the rent, knowing that by the time it goes to the resolution 18 months down the road, they can live rent-free. We have cases that are documented on our website where we have what we call “professional tenants.” They play the system. They go into the house, they refuse to pay; 16 months down the road, they get the eviction, and they go to the next one.
My point is, most of the tenants get some type of financial help, and the majority of the tenants pay the rent on time. It’s a matter of pride. It’s a matter of personal responsibility. Unfortunately, the small, little minority that refuse to play by the rules is making landlords hesitant. If you go through the LTB process and 18 months haven’t done it, either you quit or you just don’t want to hear about renting again. The small number of people—
The Chair (Mr. Ernie Hardeman): One minute.
Mr. Boubacar Bah: —a single penny of financial help because they don’t qualify.
Ms. Mitzie Hunter: Thanks very much, Mr. Bah.
(…)
The Chair (Mr. Ernie Hardeman): One minute.
Mr. Logan Kanapathi: Excellent. Thank you for that answer. I have a little bit of time left. I will switch it to Boubacar. Am I pronouncing it correctly? Can you talk about some of the issues—this is for Small Ownership Landlords of Ontario. Would you talk about the issues small ownership landlords face during these pandemic times, briefly? We only have one minute left.
Mr. Boubacar Bah: Yes, I think our main issue is the funding. Our small landlords are really hurting, and the pandemic hasn’t been nice to them, like anybody else.
The second most pressing issue is to reduce the delay to find a resolution. That can be done by funding the LTB, by allowing the members to use their discretion to make a timely decision. We are—
The Chair (Mr. Ernie Hardeman): Thank you very much. That concludes the time. We thank all the presenters for the presentations this afternoon. That does conclude this round.
